#eevblog - 2019-03-09 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2019-03-09

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« 2019-03-08 2019-03-10 »
06:32 Quit: DHess_US ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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36:20 <WebChatUser> Hello everyone, I just found my way here from the EEV forums and dang I am not a little surprised that IRC still lives in some places
36:49 Nick: WebChatUser is now known as Syzygy
37:11 <Syzygy> I was hoping to get in touch with someone who has experience with the LPKF ProtoMat S103 software
42:16 <coppice_> LPKF ProtoMat - the dust collector....
48:06 <Syzygy> That is a disheartening but not entirely unexpected response
48:37 <Syzygy> My direct report would like me to become an expert on the machine so we can put it into production use at our rapid prototyping lab
49:32 <Syzygy> There's an EEVForum thread that has been more useful than any manufacturer's support, and it's five or six years old
50:34 <Syzygy> If anyone has personal experience operating it, I'd love to hear from you. Or if anyone has custom documentation or solutions they think would help.
08:08 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:14 <WebChatUser> Hello
08:22 <WebChatUser> someone here ?
37:19 Quit: WebChatUser ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
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25:44 <DHess_US> Well, that sure didn't work. I deliberately lift my 2xAA maglite on set to high to make sure it wouldn't run hot or fail figuring that it would drain the batteries. But I lost patience and it was still going.
52:34 <coppice_> Syzygy: some RF people seem to find the LPKF machines useful, as they can quickly go through a few physical layouts, and their circuits aren't usually very complex. Digital people usually have them collecting dust.
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25:38 <Bluenote> Christ, I hate Solidworks with a passion.
36:05 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW EEVblog Video! EEVblog #1188 - $10 DIY EMC Probe using Scope FFT https://t.co/Kxc0xCXnes
42:34 <Bluenote> This crap would be acceptable in some open source suite that is community made, but...FFS...
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06:03 <Halcyon> Morning all
06:09 * Halcyon pokes Ampera awake
06:14 <Ampera> Halcyon!
06:18 <Halcyon> \o/
06:27 <Ampera> https://prnt.sc/mv1pcp
06:37 <Syzygy> coppice_ would you say this is more of an RF community or might there be some people here who use one?
07:40 <Halcyon> Hahah nice
08:09 <Syzygy> And if anyone else is curious and missed my earlier message, I'm looking for help with an LPKF s103 ProtoMat, specifically the 2.5d milling features. If anyone has any experience with the software I would like to chat.
08:39 <Halcyon> Hahah nice
08:45 <Halcyon> Oops sorry, wrong key
09:01 <Halcyon> Syzygy: Would love to help but not my area of expertise
09:15 <Halcyon> I'm sure someone here is
09:41 <Syzygy> No worries, I didn't mean to split your messages,
09:42 <Ampera> Halcyon, I also talked with gremlinz, and he's willing to try out an expanded version of my bot system on AustNet as a centrally run service
09:51 <Halcyon> Nice :)
10:01 <Syzygy> I was talking to coppice_ earlier and just got back on
10:03 <Halcyon> Did you happen to ask him about that open port thingo
10:52 <Ampera> No I didn't, but I presume they'd have some provisions for that regardless.
11:28 <Ampera> and if it's hosted by AustNet, then there's no issue with my Dynamic IP if I were to host it
11:42 <Halcyon> So they can do it by hostname instead of IP?
12:13 <Ampera> no, they do it on their own IP
12:21 <Halcyon> Oh right because they are hosting it
12:22 <Halcyon> Derr
12:29 <Halcyon> I haven't had coffee yet
13:27 <Ampera> Been meaning to ask you, you think Dave would consider an officiel EEVBlog Discord server now that we have the IRC thing?
14:41 <Halcyon> I think you would need to come up with a compelling reason as to why. He is a vintage computer nut so the IRC thing was easy, but I don't think he's all that into gaming. I could ask him and get his thoughts?
16:07 <Ampera> My pitch is that he has a large community, often full of younger, more Discord-attracted people, so an EEVBlog Discord might be a popular community hub.
16:20 <Ampera> It's also free and costs nothing to run, so there is no real risk besides me wasting my time.
16:29 <Halcyon> *nod*
18:36 <Halcyon> My quad 1Gbit NICs arrived :)
19:25 <Ampera> Anyways, if you want to ask him. He doesn't come on IRC, otherwise I'd ask him.
19:34 <Halcyon> Yeh I can flick him an email
19:42 <Ampera> sweet
32:39 <Halcyon> My tummy hurts
33:05 <Ampera> well hurt it back
33:35 <Halcyon> I think it's a "fuck you" response. I ate too much chilli last night and now I'm paying for it
35:03 <Ampera> I love it when data types get stupid, I currently have a hashmap containing hashmaps
35:13 <Halcyon> Heh
35:14 <Ampera> <Integer, HashMap<String, Long>>
36:12 <Ampera> that will store a set of all of the room IDs for the individual channels a Discord server will be connecting to.
36:31 <Halcyon> Fair enough
36:47 <Halcyon> Actually Ampera, you might be a good person to ask...
36:57 <Ampera> never am
37:00 <Ampera> but you may try anyways
37:45 <Halcyon> I want to download a list of websites (single page each, they are just recipes) but they are from a "subscription" site where you need to login, so obviously the site stores a session cookie.
37:59 <Ampera> how many sites?
38:10 <Halcyon> I can't use something like wget or HTTrack because it won't authenticate
38:14 <Halcyon> 300+ pages
38:33 <Halcyon> I don't fancy doing them individually. Ideally I just want to PDF them to individual files
38:41 <Ampera> hrm, there's likely a Chromium plugin that can do that for you.
38:53 <Ampera> or you could sit down for a couple of hours and download them one by one
38:57 <Halcyon> I did look at plugins I tried about 3 or 4 and they sucked.
39:25 <Ampera> Well when I'm faced with these situations I can either use a solution I know will work, but takes forever, or spend that time trying to figure out a way to do it faster.
39:51 <Ampera> Ususally when I do grunt work like this, I get fairly fast, and could probably bang it all out in an hour or two
39:57 <Halcyon> I did have an earlier thought though... if I use HTTrack on a Windows XP machine, it's likely going to use the integrated IE browser to access the sites, if I open the site, login and leave the session open, theoretically HTTrack should be able to use the same cookie from the cache?
40:17 <Ampera> Idk, I don't do web anything
40:27 <Halcyon> Well yeh it's a balance between taking days to write a solution, or just do it manually bit by bit
40:27 <Ampera> w3 is something I don't like, and don't enjoy working with
41:10 <Ampera> I had a 10 hour playlist of songs that I manually reencoded song by song into MP3 using ffmpeg and mediainfo to determine a reasonable bitrate for each song.
41:22 <Ampera> Only took me like an hour or so, and much of that was talking on IRC with people who were calling me stupid
41:46 <Halcyon> This is why I asked you, because I know you aren't stupid
41:55 <Halcyon> And you know obscure shit
42:47 <Halcyon> On another note, I've decided I'm going to play with VLANs this weekend
42:54 <Ampera> no clue what those are
42:55 <Halcyon> I've wanted to set them up for ages on my network
42:58 <Halcyon> Virtual LANs
43:07 <Ampera> yes I gathered that
43:30 <Halcyon> Essentially breaking up a single LAN into multiple networks so that you have separate broadcast domains and a router/firewall between them all to pass traffic
43:43 <Ampera> and why
43:54 <Halcyon> So I can put all my wireless speakers and junk on one VLAN and they can broadcast all they like without touching the rest of the LAN
44:07 <Halcyon> It's a security measure but also to reduce traffic on other parts of the network.
44:20 <Ampera> simple solution: don't have shit on lan
44:30 <Halcyon> There is no need for my audio devices to be sending broadcast packets to every single machine on the network
44:30 <Ampera> shit as in stupid broadcasting crap
44:38 <Halcyon> It's unavoidable.
44:38 <Ampera> so then why do you have them
44:44 <Halcyon> Because they are awesome speakers
44:58 <Halcyon> And I get *why* they do it
45:00 <Ampera> raspi and a nicer USB DAC
45:19 <Ampera> stream pulsesaudio machine to machine (or insert audio streaming system here), and boom
45:25 <Ampera> DIY wireless speakers
45:29 <Halcyon> Meh
45:37 <Halcyon> It's also the cost of speakers
45:42 <Halcyon> Plus this is multi-zoned
45:48 <Ampera> multi-zoned?
46:05 <Halcyon> I can have music anywhere, different songs in different rooms, or all on at the same time.
46:07 <Ampera> also can't you just use your existing speakers if they're so nice?
46:15 <Ampera> You can do that with this setup easily enough.
46:30 <Ampera> I've actually thought of implementing a system that can track a person room by room, and then can enable/disable speakers depending on where they are.
46:45 <Halcyon> You *could* somehow work out how to get DLNA talking to these speakers, but again, it doesn't solve the broadcast thing
47:01 <Ampera> or you can use my solution
47:13 <Halcyon> Or I could just set up a VLAN, forward a few ports and done :)
47:39 <Ampera> I like my solution, because then I can say I designed my own wireless home speaker system
47:51 <Halcyon> Yes, you would. For me, I don't care.
49:32 <Ampera> I'm doing my most favourite thing in the world, config file reading and parsing
49:46 <Ampera> oh sorry did I say my favourite? I meant I hate this
50:00 <Bluenote> Beats Solidworks.
50:32 <Bluenote> Nebulously broken pile of shit that it is.
50:36 <Ampera> I wish I had something like that for Linux though
50:47 <Ampera> Fusion360, anything, I just need something that is easy to use and CAD on Linux
50:52 <Ampera> FreeCAD is such a clunky mess
51:03 <Ampera> OpenSCAD is annoying to use, and TinkerCAD is overly simplistic
51:08 <Bluenote> "Clunky mess" is how I'd describe SW.
51:20 <Bluenote> It's just a clunky mess with a nice paint job.
51:32 <Ampera> I like Fusion360, and would love a Linux clone
52:49 <Bluenote> I've never stuck with Linux as a desktop OS long enough to worry about it.
53:25 <Halcyon> I used to be like you Bluenote, but with Windows 10 as an alternative, my hand was forced.
53:36 <Halcyon> I've been using Linux for almost a year now and absolutely love it
53:42 <Bluenote> Oh, Win10 is _certainly_ trying it.
53:56 <Ampera> I do not currently have a modern computer in my care that runs Windows.
54:04 <Ampera> The closest I have is a Windows XP box I don't touch too often.
54:14 <Ampera> I have completely switched to Linux and BSD
54:26 <Ampera> Even my tablet runs GNU/Linux
54:27 <Bluenote> I've stuck with Win because I game a bit, but TBH I've had less time to, and Windows has gotten more frustrating by leaps and bounds.
54:42 <Ampera> Oh I game quite a bit, and gaming on Linux is actually getting good.
54:49 <Halcyon> <jspiros> Ampera, you're typing too many lines, stop it or I'll ban you </jspiros>
54:49 <Halcyon> :P
54:51 <Ampera> By the day more and more games work on Proton, and they get more and more optimized.
55:04 <Ampera> Halcyon, not my fault you can't type fast enough to keep up with me
55:28 <Halcyon> No, I was just having a chuckle to myself. I was paraphrasing but he said that to me one time
55:51 <Ampera> I know, I just take any excuse to show how much better I am than everyone else, and how everyone else is stupid and shit.
55:52 <Bluenote> I may just set this box up to dual-boot when I blow it out in the nearish future.
56:19 <Ampera> And then excuse it on my German heritage
56:29 <Halcyon> Bluenote, I personally jumped straight into Linux. I run Windows 7 in a VM for those 2 or 3 applications I still need
56:36 <Ampera> I used to dual boot, but then threw Windows off, because I eliminated the last reason I use it.
56:53 <Ampera> which was VR games, since I own an HTC Vive, but I found a way to make it easier for me to use on Linux
57:39 <Halcyon> I use Virtualbox which allows you to have Windows windows on top of Linux windows/applications as if they are running on the same machine/OS. It integrates very nicely. VMware does a similar thing
58:17 <Ampera> I have a REALLY bad habit of not commenting my Java code.
58:29 <Ampera> I do it compulsively in C/C++, but for whatever reason not in Java
59:17 <Bluenote> The real trick is to write Verilog and comment _nothing_.
06:38 <Halcyon> I think that chilli is as spicy coming out as it went in
07:00 <Bluenote> Hafta shit in the creek to keep from settin' the woods afire?
07:09 <Halcyon> :P Something like that
07:33 <Halcyon> I acknowledge it's my own fault, but I just love anything spicy
08:32 <Bluenote> I, too, know this pain. It is very hard to make something too spicy going in, but the exit transaction has no such barrier.
08:53 <Ampera> I've never had this problem, my ass is not affected by spice.
09:02 <Bluenote> You just haven't had enough, then.
09:18 <Ampera> It is effected by my shits being too massive and hard, and breaking and lacerating my ass
09:20 <Ampera> *affected
09:33 <Ampera> but I can eat a bag of Andy Capp's and not be phased
09:47 <Ampera> man I love Andy Capp's hot fries
12:28 <Halcyon> You just haven't eaten enough chilli Ampera :)
12:42 <Ampera> I actually don't eat chilli, don't much care for the beans
12:55 <Halcyon> Chilli as in the fruit/spice, not beans/meat etc...
13:14 <Halcyon> I put dried chilli flakes/powder on just about everything. I use it like people use salt.
13:25 <Halcyon> Fresh chilli if it has veges
13:30 <Ampera> Even when I've had habenero tabasco in soup, it's not done anything
13:37 <Ampera> and this is already hot and spicy soup
13:41 <Halcyon> Meh Habenero isn't that hot
13:47 <Halcyon> It's good with eggs
18:32 <Bluenote> Welp, I'm an idiot.
18:43 <Halcyon> What did you do?
19:03 <Bluenote> Followed instructions without reading them through entirely beforehand.
19:09 <Halcyon> :)
21:35 <Bluenote> Wasted about 30m on a completely asinine, contrived example.
24:05 <Ampera> fuck I think I'm finally done
24:10 <Ampera> I hate writing config parsers
26:58 <Bluenote> It's just one of those days full of frustrating tasks all around, I guess.
31:10 <Ampera> you want to know what is really frustrating? I woke up at 16:45
31:28 <Halcyon> I can't sleep during the day
31:33 <Ampera> this is actually the worst my sleeping has ever gotten, and I've managed to go fully noctournal, but I keep trying to push it forward
31:58 <Ampera> I'm going to make my first attempt at a wraparound
32:12 <Bluenote> I sleep during the day naturally. Go to sleep somewhere around 0600, wake up about 1400.
32:28 <Bluenote> Been flipping that twice per week since the start of the year though. Sucks.
33:43 <Ampera> I just have literally nothing I need to do, so there's barely an incentive to maintain a real sleep schedule
34:36 <Bluenote> So why bother?
34:42 <Halcyon> Speaking of things I need to do, I should shower and get stuff done
34:45 <Halcyon> Its 1040
35:00 <Ampera> Because when it's late like this, I can't cook any food, otherwise I'll wake people up.
35:07 <Ampera> So when it's late like this, I can't /eat/
35:16 <Ampera> EEVBlog time
35:16 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 10:40 Sydney time.
35:21 <Ampera> You're not lying
38:57 <Halcyon> Why would I lie?
39:36 <Ampera> I could think of a plethora of reasons you would want to lie to me.
39:40 <Ampera> most people do it just because they hate me
39:59 <Halcyon> But I don't hate you?
40:06 <Ampera> That's news to me.
40:14 <Halcyon> I've always told you this
40:15 <Ampera> but then again I don't pay attention to the news much
40:16 <Halcyon> *smack*
56:37 * T3sl4 hugs Halcyon
42:34 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: RT @SBSNews: Watch the moment a paraglider makes a safe landing only to then be attacked by a kangaroo. Straya! https://t.co/nqStQnV9gk
03:45 <DHess_US> These are hillarious, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsRtomD4twRf5WVHHk-cMw/videos
11:48 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Thinking I might do a live show shortly, just because...
12:58 <Syzygy> I don't suppose anyone who has logged on in the last few hours knows anything about the care and feeding of an LPKF Protomat S103 PCB mill?
13:13 <Ampera> Sugar water and a warm blankie?
13:30 <Ampera> Works with birds, why not a PCB mill?
18:22 <coppice_> Syzygy: what kind of boards do you make?
18:42 <Syzygy> I actually use the 2.5d milling function to make stamps for nanoembossing
19:18 <Syzygy> Mill the positive in polycarbonate then make a plastic sandwich in a hot vacuumpress
20:17 <coppice_> Syzygy: it will probably do a better job of that than it does of making PCBs :)
20:27 <Syzygy> That's what I hear
24:47 * Halcyon cuddles T3sl4 
24:50 <Halcyon> I've missed you
25:06 <T3sl4> it's been a short while
25:10 <Halcyon> *nod*
25:23 <Halcyon> I've been toey for T3sl4
25:46 <Ampera> this is gay
25:49 <Syzygy> My hope was to find someone that had a lot of experience with one and might have some tips or best practices to share, especially about the tool magazine issues and workholding
25:54 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Ask Dave is now LIVE! https://t.co/G2B7RnwnWn
26:15 <Ampera> Syzygy, Forums might be a better place, it's just a body of people sorta thing.
26:31 <Halcyon> Don't knock it until you've tried it Ampera
26:33 <Syzygy> The forum had a treasure trove of useful info, actually
26:57 <Halcyon> Syzygy: Yeh, really good bunch of people on there
26:57 <Syzygy> I've got some usernames to feed to the NSA to get better contact info
27:01 <Ampera> Halcyon, I already caught homosexuality, but thankfully I didn't lose my heterosexuality.
27:15 <Syzygy> And it led me here and I thought it would be good to follow it all the way down the rabbit hole so to speak
27:20 <Ampera> but I maintain my desire to make fun of anyone for anything at any time I want.
27:43 <Halcyon> It's actually quite rare to get a forum which is as functional as EEVBlog
27:50 <Halcyon> Usually forums are full of fuckwits and trolls
27:54 <coppice_> Syzygy: There aren't many of those machines around, so you need to ask in forums with a lot of people to have a good chance of catching people who use them, especially considering how many of them are just collecting dust
27:58 <Ampera> I wish I had a reason to run a forum.
28:01 <Ampera> I love running forums.
28:22 <Syzygy> Want to run a forum about LPKF ProtoMat s10w troubleshooting?
28:28 <Halcyon> Heheh
28:32 <Syzygy> I will pay you nothing and it will not be satisfying
29:01 <Ampera> So long as you pay the hosting, I'll set it up
29:06 <Ampera> I have nothing better to do with my time
31:14 <Bluenote> Some people should not be allowed to instruct others.
31:41 <Bluenote> "Create 4 segments of arbitrary size"
31:47 <Bluenote> Hmm. I seem to have a problem.
31:54 <Bluenote> "Oh, you made the segments the wrong size."
33:25 <Syzygy> @ampera can I fly you to America to sit in a university basement and write manuals?
33:45 <Ampera> You could, but flying me to America would be pretty redundant.
34:02 <Halcyon> Indeed, he already lives in Retardistan
34:19 <Ampera> You thought I lived in the land down syndrome, I guess.
34:28 <Halcyon> You wish you lived here
35:27 <Ampera> Not really, here I can call anyone I want a faggot without risking being charged with a hate crime, I can carry most knives and blades most places, and I can legally own and operate a firearm without too much hassle.
35:34 <Ampera> Although New York sort of fucks that one up a bit
35:52 <Halcyon> I thought America was the opposite? You say one "offensive" thing and you're dragged to a court
36:22 <Ampera> no?
36:23 <Halcyon> Here a magistrate would laugh you out of court for a matter such as that.
36:42 <Ampera> In the US you could call a cop a huge faggot and he's not legally allowed to do anything to you
37:07 <Ampera> I'm sure if he threw his coffee at you, nobody would be all too chuffed about doing anything about it.
37:10 <Syzygy> Considering our stance on police brutality though probably nobody would care if he beat the shit out of you
37:31 <Ampera> No, I'm white, people would care.
37:33 <Bluenote> It's more fitting to say that some people would care, but nothing would be done.
37:34 <Ampera> I'm not black.
37:58 <Bluenote> That just means that they might not shoot you and get away with it.
38:08 <Ampera> No, people care if you're black, but nobody would do anything about it, but not too many people will get too worked up if you're white, but will probably do something about it.
38:12 <Halcyon> Courts here have determined that "fuck" is not offensive
38:25 <Ampera> Courts here are not allowed to determine something to be offensive afaik.
38:26 <Halcyon> So you can't be charged with offensive language using that word anymore
38:35 <Halcyon> You guys would have case law there
38:36 <Bluenote> Nah, cops will still beat your ass if you're white and giving them shit.
38:50 <Ampera> There is no such thing as being charged with offensive language in the US, not outside of very limited park ordinances, where they might tell you to leave or fine you 20 bucks
38:57 <coppice_> Halcyon: how the fuck would they know?
39:07 <Ampera> It depends, Bluenote, every cop is different.
39:16 <Bluenote> ACAB.
39:19 <Ampera> Some probably wouldn't give a shit, some probably have a power complex and would do something.
39:25 <Halcyon> coppice_: Fucked if I know. Your honour: I move that the defendant is a fuckwit.
39:27 <Bluenote> Some as just less than others.
39:32 <Bluenote> *are
40:05 <Ampera> I'm just saying what's on the books, what actually happens is an entire story, and operates on a, and get this, case by case basis.
40:08 <Halcyon> Ampera: Here, you can be charged with *any* offence if it's illegal, although some offences can be dealt with via an infringement notice. It's up to the Police and the circumstances
40:33 <Halcyon> On the flip side, there are many (most) offences which cannot be dealt with via infringement and charge is the only option (i.e.: Assault)
40:39 <Ampera> The US is one of the few nations in the world that I know of with constitutionally protected free speech, and one of the few where that tends to mean something every so often.
41:25 <Ampera> The complexities of things like libel/slander law are weird, and legal consequences are seperate from social consequences.
41:28 <Halcyon> The idea behind "Offensive language" isn't about the spoken word, it's about the intent. If you go around inciting hatred, then expect to be charged.
41:37 <Ampera> However something like Markus Meechan wouldn't happen here.
41:41 <Halcyon> If you just said "shit" or "fuck" or "fuck me", it's not offensive to a reasonable person
42:29 <Halcyon> Most offences like that here need to pass the so-called "reasonable person test"
42:38 <Ampera> You can hate whoever you want in the US, and express it as much as you want, so long as it's not a threat, or a published (spoken or written) comment pushed as truth.
42:47 <Halcyon> It's not about what the individual thinks, it's about what a court deems an average person would think/feel
43:21 <coppice_> these days it seems anything can be considered hate speech, except when its people hating that you speak
43:23 <Ampera> So I can say, perfectly legally in the US with sincerity, and publish it, that I think that Hitler was one of the best hopes for a peaceful world, and that his policies on the extermination of lower races was a just and fruitful endeavor.
43:26 <Halcyon> You'll get people who are offended by the word "crap"... they can go get fucked.
43:43 <Halcyon> Yes, same here
43:47 <Halcyon> That's not offensive
43:53 <Ampera> So what is?
44:22 <Halcyon> "All jews are should be killed. Hitler had the right idea. Next jew I see I'm going to stab."
44:28 <Ampera> I can say that black people are animal scum and should be locked up in cages and forced to work cotton picking, and that is also legal.
44:41 <Halcyon> Depends how you say it
44:50 <Ampera> First statement I believe is legal, since that is not a threat, nor is it specific. Second statement is perfectly fine.
44:52 <Halcyon> Here that wouldn't be illegal either. People might hate you, but it's not "offensive"
45:26 <Ampera> The third is shaky, and would likely be the only (when published) statement that might possibly get any scrutiny (it would almost never be taken to a court though).
45:41 <Halcyon> If you staged a protest and started shouting that everywhere, the situation would be different
45:46 <Ampera> However imo it's too general of a statement, and is not a specific threat to an individual.
45:53 <Halcyon> Correct
46:09 <Halcyon> You're allowed to hate blacks, or indians or Australians.
46:14 <Halcyon> No one can say you can't
46:20 <Halcyon> Just don't be a fuckwit about it
46:22 <Ampera> Then why are those three statements illegal?
46:28 <Halcyon> That should be law: "Don't be a fuckwit"
46:33 <Halcyon> They aren't
46:39 <Ampera> So what would be illegal?
47:11 <Ampera> In general I disagree with the existance of and dislike any law that requires a court to give an opinion on if something is nice, offensive, or right or not.
47:17 <Halcyon> "
47:17 <Halcyon> Under the Racial Discrimination Act, offensive behaviour in the workplace based on racial hatred can be against the law. Racial hatred is defined as something done in public that offends, insults, humiliates or intimidates a person or group of people because of their race, colour or national or ethnic origin. The Act contains exemptions to protect freedom of speech."
47:47 <Halcyon> The threat/act has to be OFFENSIVE to a reasonable person.
47:57 <Ampera> That gets even more interesting in the US. In the workplace, calling someone a nigger isn't illegal.
48:08 <Halcyon> Nor is it here
48:16 <Halcyon> But it will probably get you a reprimand or fired
48:18 <Ampera> I'm going to refrain from engaging in social rammifications, because those are entirely different and seperate.
48:21 <Ampera> aye
48:43 <Ampera> As a staffer, preventing a black person from the use of facilities /is/ illegal.
49:06 <Ampera> General discrimination of that sort is illegal as of the civil rights act of 1964.
49:52 <Halcyon> Yep
49:52 <Ampera> It also makes gender discrimination on the basis of employment (including pay) illegal as well. Which really made my piss boil when the news went on about how Iceland was supposedly the first country to make the wage gap illegal.
50:07 <Halcyon> The whole wage gap thing is bullshit
50:15 <Halcyon> At least here it is
50:16 <Ampera> Did you hear what happened with Google?
50:18 <Halcyon> Nope?
50:37 <Ampera> They did an internal investigation as to the compensation of their employees compared to the work they do on the basis of gender
50:47 <Ampera> and found that they tended to pay men less than woman for the same/similar work.
51:02 <Halcyon> https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/what-is-the-law-on-offensive-language-in-nsw/
51:10 <Halcyon> The section under "Meaning of "Offensive" is interesting
51:58 <Halcyon> Ampera: There are other entitlements too which women are able to claim but men aren't
52:03 <Ampera> I disagree with the existence of a law that provides a charge for being offensive, and that doesn't exist, and can never exist in the US.
52:04 <Halcyon> Maternity leave for example
52:19 <Ampera> That isn't legally enforced in the US afaik, and there are companies that do not offer it.
53:09 <Halcyon> I believe here there is a minimum entitlement if you're a full-time, permanent employee
53:15 <Ampera> That is one of the critical sources of the wage gap (as a concept) in the US, and I believe a fair offering of maternity or paternity leave to one of the parents (not forever, but not for just a week), is something that should be part of working law.
53:28 <Ampera> Not here, but I'd agree to one being created.
53:59 <Halcyon> I think here (in Government) we are entitled to 1 week as males but females get 6 weeks paid leave
54:21 <Halcyon> There are ways around that but you shouldn't have to work the system just to get equal rights as women
54:49 <Ampera> I'd say entitlement should be gender neutral, and should be something like 3 weeks minimum, and given to only one parent (at a minimum).
55:01 <Halcyon> I agree
55:17 <Ampera> That I'd consider to be a fair minimum to strike a balance towards companies having to financially support dead weight, and new families being able to spend time with their newborn.
55:20 <Halcyon> And of course judged case-by-case
55:29 <Halcyon> For example, a mate of mine just had twins
55:30 <Ampera> Judged case by case?
55:40 <Halcyon> It's unreasonable to expect that just the mother will care for both of them
56:01 <Halcyon> Especially if she is recovering herself
56:13 <coppice_> making materity leave an employer's responsibility is wrong. if its considered an important public good the state should pick up the bill, otherwise there shouldn't be a bill
56:19 <Ampera> You also have to consider the employer, though. People are very expensive, and having one go for ages on a payroll, contributing nothing can interrupt workflows, and waste loads of money.
56:40 <Ampera> coppice_, not an unfair point, but perhaps a compromise might be made
56:42 <Halcyon> Absolutely Ampera, but you can't tell people they can't have kids (or if they do, they don't have a job)
57:01 <Ampera> 30-40% employer, 70-60% state
59:52 <Ampera> or some compromise thereforth.
00:17 <Ampera> There's a lot that could go into that decision, and I can say I am also not the best one to get a final solution, at least not without considerable research and consulting.
08:33 <Ampera> The bot now can generate configs
09:03 <Halcyon> Hurrah
11:34 <Ampera> I'm getting better and better at programming these sorts of things.
12:15 <Halcyon> https://media1.tenor.com/images/0495476ec262254ab968676f05ce1b0a/tenor.gif?itemid=9251847
13:16 <Ampera> http://prntscr.com/mvbh17 I'm getting it writing out, I just need to fix it reading in (this was generated by the program)
23:01 <Halcyon> Hmm another live Ask Dave stream is happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ilODYy2zGE
27:32 <Ampera> yeah the EEVBot announced it in here
27:43 <Ampera> I can now read configs!
47:52 <Ampera> EEVBlog
47:52 <EEVBlog> no u.
52:09 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Changing hosts
52:10 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:10 Mode: (by lego.jp.austnet.org) +o Ampera
13:22 * Halcyon licks Ampera
22:30 <Ampera> I'm messing around with VR
24:18 <Halcyon> I'm watching Mike Jeavons
30:20 <Ampera> Halcyon, I played Minecraft in VR
30:26 <Halcyon> Kew
30:55 <Ampera> VR on Linux is pretty good, I just wish I had slightly beefier GPU hardware
31:33 <Halcyon> What do you have currently?
31:38 <Ampera> GTX 970
31:58 <Halcyon> If I have something better in stock I'll send it to you in my package to you
32:15 <Ampera> Something better in stock is hundreds of dollars, this isn't a weak GPU
32:36 <Ampera> but when you're talking VR, even a middle of the road GPU is minimum spec
32:53 <Halcyon> Maybe you can SLI them or something? *shrug*
33:01 <Ampera> Can't don't have a board that supports it.
33:07 <Halcyon> Poo
33:22 <Halcyon> Can you not do it using the PCIex bus some how? I don't know how games/GPUs work
33:30 <Halcyon> Like split the workload between 2 cards
33:47 <Ampera> Nope, that doesn't happen, and especially not on nvidia drivers
34:15 <Halcyon> I guess it depends on the software to support such a thing?
34:20 <Ampera> Even if I could, that would require owning another 970, which aren't terribly cheap either, and I'd at best get maybe +50-75% of my performance at a pure guess
34:27 <Halcyon> It's basically what we do at work for cracking encryption
34:44 <Ampera> nvidia drivers run the OpenGL rendering pipeline, which can be split across multiple cards, but only with SLI
35:10 <Halcyon> Fair enough
35:28 <Ampera> This board /does/ support crossfire, and I'd be tempted to get an AMD GPU if they weren't on an entire level of stupid in terms of power consumption.
35:59 <Ampera> because AMD cards have way nicer drivers on Linux than nvidia cards, since they can work with things like mesa, and allow you to do multiple GPU setups for more monitors
36:01 <Halcyon> They are basically space heaters those AMD cards
36:05 <Ampera> and you know how much I like my monitors
36:09 <Halcyon> Plus not reliable in the long term
36:14 <Ampera> shut up :P
36:26 <Halcyon> It's true though
36:34 <Ampera> I'll give you space heaters, but not reliability.
36:44 <Ampera> I've never known AMD to have reliability issues as far as GPUs go
36:54 <Halcyon> I reckon 30-40% of AMD cards we retired last year failed
37:01 <Halcyon> Even some of the new ones failed during testing
37:04 <Ampera> neither ATI. Drivers sucking? Yes, but these are Linux cards.
37:10 <Ampera> And what are those cards? OEM cards?
37:22 <Ampera> Lightweight workstation stuff, made to be cheap in numbers not reliable?
37:22 <Halcyon> On the contrary, I've had all kinds of reliability issues with AMD GPUs
37:28 <Halcyon> And weird artifacts
37:42 <Halcyon> These are expensive number crunching cards
37:47 <Halcyon> Not workstation stuff
37:48 <Ampera> I've used AMD GPUs for years, I've never had a single problem with them, in fact they ran better than my nvidia card as far as system stability.
37:51 <Halcyon> They aren't driving monitors
38:05 <Ampera> The nvidia drivers would almost completely break for no real reason, and no real fix besides reinstalling every month or so
38:36 <Halcyon> The only issue I've had with Linux and Nvidia (likely a driver issue) is I have to force it into "Maximum performance" mode as oppose to adaptive
38:42 <Ampera> The issue, Halcyon, and it alters your view in general, is that you have experience with computing hardware from an enterprise perspective.
38:59 <Halcyon> I guess
39:05 <Ampera> The concerns therein are considerably different, and you are far more likely to notice defects in cards not intended for consumers.
39:16 <Halcyon> I guess odd glitches and lockups at home or during games really doesn't matter
39:27 <Ampera> Like your going on about ECC, which is almost completely useless on a non-commercial appliance.
39:39 <Ampera> I never had any of those, and I don't have any today whatsoever.
39:45 <Halcyon> Wellll.... there are known attacks for non-ECC machines
39:50 <Ampera> My computer is completely stable, and can run for weeks without any issue.
39:55 <Ampera> Known attacks?
40:05 <Halcyon> Buffer overflow type attacks
40:16 <Ampera> Buffer overflow can happen on any machine, not just ECC.
40:22 <Ampera> *non-ECC
40:24 <Halcyon> Involves flipping bits by changing adjacent bits in a certain way
40:42 <Halcyon> I'm aware of this, but I'm specifically talking about non-ECC machines
40:49 <Halcyon> ECC machines are not susceptible
41:16 <Ampera> The thing is that's not really a concern to the average user, or anyone who is reasonable enough to be safe with their machines.
41:45 <Halcyon> I don't necessarily agree with that, a lot of malware doesn't descriminate
42:03 <Halcyon> And what we're seeing more recently is malware which is only resident in RAM
42:06 <Halcyon> It never hits the disk
42:09 <Ampera> I've used non-ECC for as long as I've had a primary computer, and I have not had a malware infection for probably around 5-7 years.
42:26 <Halcyon> I've *never* had a malware or virus infection
42:35 <Halcyon> But then again, you can't compare us to an average user
42:40 <Ampera> I did stupid shit when I was a kid and learned from it. Ever since then I never had anything.
42:45 <Ampera> Even on Windows
43:31 <Ampera> My point is that you have concerns like bit flipping (intentional or not) on a larger, enterprise scale, where loss of data or abuse of memory locations is a far more considerable gripe, and the extra cost of ECC makes sense.
43:36 <Halcyon> Have a read of this: It touches on what I'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer
45:38 <Ampera> It says right on there that common ECC is not capable of stopping all instances of those attacks
46:41 <Ampera> but in order for that to even happen, I'd imagine, you'd have to have a very specially designed program running on your machine, that is in just the right place to flip the right memory.
46:52 <Halcyon> Not alone
47:03 <Halcyon> But in combination with other mitigating strategies
47:14 <Halcyon> But ECC alone can solve some instances of it
47:15 <Ampera> My point isn't that these issues don't exist though, it's that their mitigation is not important to me, nor most average users.
47:24 <Halcyon> They do exist
47:30 <Halcyon> There are a number of CVE's about them
47:32 <Ampera> I just said they did ya blind cunt
47:40 <Halcyon> :P
47:47 <Halcyon> Malware is getting more and more complex
48:02 <Halcyon> Sure, 0-day stuff is unlikely to affect a regular home user
48:17 <Ampera> Of course it is, my point is that people like me don't tend to put themselves into positions that allow for the ingress of malicious code.
48:26 <Halcyon> It's not always up to you though
49:07 <Halcyon> All it takes is for your modem/router to be vulnerable and for an attacker to pivot to your internal network
49:07 <Ampera> Not that we can't be affected by things, but it starts turning into paranoia when we have to dump our configs just to get ECC, because we're afraid that one specific attack might happen in one specific way.
49:59 <Ampera> Of course, but is that's the case, why has my network not been hit?
50:14 <Halcyon> The same reason mine hasn't
50:18 <Ampera> My router is a pfSense box made out of an old AMD machine with desktop memory.
50:20 <Halcyon> You have half a brain
50:23 <Halcyon> Perfect
50:30 <Halcyon> Much more than most people
50:48 <Halcyon> Anyway, I'm going to get dinner started
50:50 <Ampera> You might like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTEdKb4sJj0
50:56 <Halcyon> Back soon, maybe a game of CAH later?
51:01 <Ampera> maybe
51:20 <Halcyon> I don't mind it
51:39 Join: Guest|66621 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
51:42 <Ampera> I love ELO, I can't stop listening to them
51:44 <Ampera> so good
52:22 <Guest|66621> Hi Dave, are you online now?
52:45 <Ampera> Dave does not come on IRC. He can be reached via the forum most easily.
53:15 <Guest|66621> Thanks
53:39 Mode: (by Ampera) +v EEVBlog
54:04 <Guest|66621> What is the address of the forum?
54:17 <Ampera> http://www.eevblog.com/forum
54:27 <Guest|66621> Thanks
08:43 Quit: Guest|66621 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
18:37 <Halcyon> Right, potatoes are in the oven
34:20 <Ampera> Halcyon, are potatoes codeword for jews?
34:32 <Halcyon> No, filthy Americans :P
34:44 <Halcyon> Potato = Potato
34:55 <Ampera> why not jews?
35:13 <Halcyon> I know some nice Jews
35:25 <Halcyon> Except one, one is a fuck stick
35:54 <Ampera> me?
36:09 <Halcyon> No
36:12 <Halcyon> A guy I work with
36:22 <Ampera> hol up, I thought you said sick fuck
36:25 <Ampera> what the fuck is a fuck stick?
36:31 <Halcyon> *shrug*
36:43 <Halcyon> I guess technically a penis
36:51 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: A few people have mentioned I got a "fake" v3 RTL2832U on ebay. How do you tell? https://t.co/Xxqov8mNnO
36:57 <Halcyon> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuckstick
37:01 <Ampera> witionary states it as an undesirable person
37:09 <Halcyon> General term meaning idiot, asshole, unpleasant, bastard, dumbass, jackass, etc.
38:34 <Halcyon> Kind of like a Fuck Knuckle
38:40 * Ampera throws a lobster at Halcyon 
38:45 <Halcyon> Aussies have many words which basically mean "You're a fuckwit"
39:40 <Ampera> what are you cooking for dinner, besides jews?
42:25 <Halcyon> Just doing a BBQ
42:33 <Halcyon> Sausages, steaks
42:36 <Halcyon> Etc..
42:44 <Halcyon> Throw them on some bread rolls and nom
43:10 <Halcyon> I can't be bothered doing anything
01:19 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Connection closed
01:30 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:32 * Halcyon pounces on steve30 
27:38 * T3sl4 teases Halcyon with a feather
27:45 <Halcyon> Oooer :P
28:06 * Ampera shits in the tank of Halcyon's toilet
28:20 <T3sl4> upper decker, classy
28:37 <Halcyon> Random
28:48 <Ampera> 85977067
29:02 <Ampera> ATDT 15183477267
29:05 <T3sl4> 241543903
29:29 <Halcyon> Bleep
00:30 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: 7yo Sagan's new favourite YouTube channel @CuriousDroid https://t.co/EHMGu7b1vY
01:45 <Ampera> I am currently engaged in a porn war with someone
04:02 <Halcyon> What the hell is a porn war?
04:10 <Ampera> furry porn vs hentai
04:19 <Halcyon> They both suck
04:26 * steve30 purrs at Halcyon 
04:29 <Ampera> you send each other porn until someone gives in
04:29 <Halcyon> :D
04:32 <Ampera> I won it
04:35 <Halcyon> Gives in?
04:48 <Ampera> tells you to stop
05:01 <Halcyon> Riiiight
05:02 <Halcyon> :P
05:22 <Ampera> I have a channel on my discord server almost completely full of hentai
05:52 <Halcyon> You are odd
05:55 <Halcyon> I like it :)
06:03 <Ampera> I go look at it when I want to feel bad about myself
06:19 <Halcyon> I look at porn to feel good too :P
06:35 <Ampera> it reminds me how much I hate myself, and how I'll never have joy in my life
06:42 <Halcyon> But that's a lie
06:47 <Halcyon> You can't predict the future
06:48 <Ampera> not really
06:52 <Halcyon> Yes really
07:04 <Ampera> if you break a stick in half, what are the chances it will be same and whole again?
07:16 <Halcyon> You are not a stick
07:19 <Ampera> you may glue it, you may tape it, you may crush it up and regrow it into a new tree
07:25 <Ampera> yet you will never have what has been broken
07:36 <Ampera> of course I am, I'm a filthy XY
08:11 * steve30 hugs Halcyon 
08:19 * T3sl4 hugs steve30
08:32 <Ampera> ugh, gay
08:38 <T3sl4> Ampera: break stick, you have two stick
08:41 <T3sl4> can't beat stick
09:14 <Ampera> burn stick into an ash, and cast it with a resin into a new stick
09:19 <Ampera> you have returned to one stick
10:39 <Ampera> reminds me of the time that I when I was younger, proved that time cannot possibly exist, and that it doesn't exist
11:32 <T3sl4> thereby proving it exists
21:56 * steve30 hugs T3sl4 
22:06 <T3sl4> :)
22:29 <steve30> i need to go out this morning. I hope it doesn't rain
22:53 <Halcyon> You love a bit of man love Ampera
22:59 * Halcyon hugs both steve30 and T3sl4 
23:10 * steve30 <3 hugs
23:28 <steve30> btw Halcyon, i went for some more physiotherapy on tuesday
34:31 <Halcyon> ;-)
34:39 <Halcyon> How was Dr. Hot body?
35:53 <steve30> ok
37:22 <steve30> he gave my hip a good workout again
38:06 <Halcyon> *grin*
45:48 <steve30> He wanted me to have an xray, so i asked the doctor yesterday, but he didn't want to send me for an xray without me first seeing a specialist
52:01 <Halcyon> I see
53:38 <steve30> anyway, I'm off out to the chemist to get my squiggles dispensed :)
55:29 <Halcyon> Squiggles?
55:56 <steve30> prescription
56:20 <Halcyon> Enjoy
04:14 * steve30 returns with some 'Flamingo' brand Ibuprofen
45:25 <Halcyon> Is it pink?
46:50 <steve30> funnily enough, yes :)
46:55 <Halcyon> :)
47:05 <Ampera> good morning
48:18 <Halcyon> Did you get any sleep?
49:48 <Ampera> 2:26 to around 5:40
50:30 <Halcyon> \o/
53:21 <Ampera> I am hungr
16:04 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
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14:15 Join: mrpackethead ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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25:57 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW EEVblog Video! Ask Dave LIVE https://t.co/HrpcmEHn5n
39:48 <Ampera> Halcyon, I'm getting the package shipped out today. should be there in a week or so
40:22 Quit: mrpackethead ([email protected]) EOF from client
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