// #d&d — 2011-07-23
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03:20:33 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
04:59:08 twitch has quit (Client exited)
10:27:11 <Avatar> I don't think mm shiver cares enough to exile me
10:48:55 <Avatar> the cove escort respawns almost immediately
12:09:25 Onerock ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
12:35:16 <Avatar> Onerock
12:35:29 <Onerock> Yo
12:35:36 <Avatar> roll up a character
12:36:14 <Onerock> about that
12:36:24 <Onerock> what and how do I do that
12:36:30 <Avatar> ok go to the site
12:36:32 <Avatar> downloads section
12:36:35 <Avatar> get CA (beta)
12:36:38 <Onerock> I am literally completely free of knowledge
12:36:39 <Avatar> and a char sheet template for pathfinder
12:36:45 <Onerock> can do
12:36:51 <Avatar> have you played before
12:36:59 <Onerock> nope
12:37:01 <Onerock> not at all
12:37:10 <Avatar> okay you will need a book as well
12:37:16 <Avatar> sec
12:37:34 <Onerock> I can illegally download those if need be, haha
12:37:59 <Avatar> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/738618/PFRPG_SRD.pdf
12:38:10 <Avatar> that one is legal and quicker to get through
12:38:16 <Avatar> not as pretty
12:38:44 <Onerock> legality is a bonus
12:39:16 <Avatar> and for PFS you'll also need, uh
12:39:39 <Avatar> http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/scenarios/v5748btpy84k4
12:39:40 <Avatar> this
12:39:44 <Avatar> which is free
12:39:48 <Avatar> just 'purchase' it
12:39:50 <Onerock> you're going to be wading through some serious lakes of ignorance here, but uh, what is PFS
12:40:26 <Onerock> is that Pathfinder Society?
12:40:28 <Onerock> that would make sense
12:53:20 <Onerock> only 581 pages
12:53:22 <Onerock> excellent
13:01:36 <Avatar> woops
13:01:45 <Avatar> sorry, uh
13:01:48 <Avatar> PFS is pathfinder society
13:01:56 <Avatar> one of the 'campaigns' we have running here
13:02:05 <Avatar> normally we'd be running one today at 2pm, but I think we're short on players
13:02:06 <Onerock> I see
13:02:19 <Avatar> the campaigns are in the topic for times, and on the site for characters
13:02:35 <Onerock> I see
13:02:45 <Avatar> first thing you should do is decide on what class you want to play as
13:02:55 <Avatar> then what race
13:03:24 <Avatar> chapter 4 of the guide to pathfinder society has a decent character creation step by step
13:03:30 <Avatar> but some sections will say "do it like usual"
13:03:34 <Onerock> hah
13:03:39 <Avatar> ask whatever you need to here
13:03:44 <Avatar> there's no stupid questions when you're brand new
13:03:46 <Onerock> okay
13:03:53 <Onerock> I'm doing pretty well so far
13:04:04 <Avatar> should probably create you an account
13:04:05 <Onerock> I've played enough video games that this isn't too foreign to me
13:04:07 <Avatar> i'll need a character name
13:04:27 <Onerock> character name eh
13:04:34 <Onerock> are there any rules pertaining to that
13:04:51 <Avatar> no
13:04:58 <Avatar> anything you like
13:05:01 <Avatar> I just need a first name
13:05:04 <Avatar> you can decide last name later
13:05:49 <Onerock> let's go with "David Lazarus". I've used that before so that should be easy enough
13:06:02 <Avatar> ok
13:06:21 <Avatar> added
13:06:26 <Avatar> you can upload your sheet now
13:06:32 <Onerock> cool
13:06:32 <Avatar> I'm pm'd you your account details
13:09:12 <Onerock> thanks
13:16:56 <Onerock> hey
13:17:02 <Onerock> not sure about the abilities
13:17:23 <Onerock> it says you're given 20 points (?) and none can be below 7
13:17:41 <Onerock> so, do they all begin at 7 (before allocating points) or ?
13:19:34 <Onerock> oh wait
13:19:35 <Avatar> they all begin at 10
13:19:40 <Onerock> okay
13:19:45 <Avatar> the 'points' are assigned to each ability point
13:19:46 <Avatar> so umm
13:19:51 <Avatar> keeping it at 10 costs 0 points
13:19:56 <Avatar> boosting it to 11 costs 1 point
13:20:00 <Onerock> right and you can take points away until 7
13:20:03 <Avatar> right
13:20:03 <Onerock> and redistribute?
13:20:06 <Onerock> cool
13:20:09 <Onerock> I got it I think
13:20:18 <Avatar> having an ability at 7 gives you 4 points
13:20:38 <Avatar> and generally you want to try and get even ability scores
13:21:00 <Avatar> except con is more okay at either even or odd
13:21:06 <Avatar> I don't think the other scores do anything when it's odd
13:21:17 <Onerock> do you want even so that it rounds up or something?
13:21:27 <Avatar> well with abilities, only your ability mod actually matters
13:21:34 <Avatar> like at 10, your mod is +0
13:21:36 <Avatar> at 12 it's +1
13:21:38 <Avatar> 14 +2
13:21:39 <Avatar> etc
13:21:47 <Avatar> and what you add to rolls is the mod
13:21:55 <Onerock> I see
13:21:56 <Avatar> if you have it at 13, it's still +1
13:22:02 <Avatar> so it's a bit of a waste
13:22:20 <Avatar> con is an exception because when you reach negative (your con score), that's when you die
13:22:28 <Avatar> negative your con score in hit points
13:22:44 <Avatar> I think that's the only time in the game the score actually matters
13:22:49 <Avatar> well
13:23:00 <Avatar> some feats require pre-requisite ability scores of "at least" 13 or 15
13:23:10 <Avatar> but you'd usually have the score at 14 or 16
13:23:34 <Avatar> str is mostly important for melee hits, and how much you can carry
13:23:50 <Avatar> dex is mostly important for combat order, improving your AC (especially vs spells)
13:23:55 <Avatar> and your ranged attacks
13:24:14 <Avatar> con is your hp and your ability to resist poison and whatnot
13:24:38 <Avatar> int boosts your skill mods and gives you extra languages
13:25:12 <Avatar> wis boosts your ability to protect from certain spells and is the modifier for some of the more important skills in the game
13:25:31 <Onerock> okay then
13:25:37 <Avatar> cha is usually the dump stat
13:25:58 <Avatar> but you can bluff/intimidate/diplomacy with it, which is good if you're a roleplayer type
13:26:12 <Avatar> spellcasters rely on either int, wis or cha, depending on what class you choose
13:26:20 <Onerock> is having a balanced set of stats a good idea, to promote realism and whatnot, or do people generally minmax the shit out of it?
13:26:29 <Avatar> people generally minmax
13:26:32 <Avatar> especially in PFS
13:26:44 <Avatar> I should mention that PFS games last 2-3 sessions
13:27:01 <Avatar> so you effectively have to be able to commit to 2-3 games to play
13:27:07 <Avatar> 4 hour sessions
13:27:42 <Onerock> I'm guessing these sessions are not all in a row haha
13:28:22 <Avatar> weekly
13:28:56 <Avatar> after each 'module' (of 2-3 sessions), you win and get 1 experience point
13:28:59 <Avatar> when you get 3, you level up
13:33:40 <Onerock> oh god so many choices
13:38:22 <Onerock> elves are long-lived, apparently
13:38:28 <Onerock> how long lived are we talking here
13:40:32 <Avatar> there's ages in umm
13:41:15 <Avatar> chapter 7, p154
13:41:41 <Avatar> you get bonuses/penalties to your ability scores if you're old enough
13:41:48 <Avatar> you can be whatever age you like
13:42:12 <Onerock> also more importantly do the racial abilities go into the abilties section or racial bonuses
13:42:29 <Onerock> or is it a little of column a and a little of column b
13:42:30 <Avatar> racial bonuses
13:42:41 <Avatar> abilities section is literally just str/dex/con/int/wis/cha
13:43:14 <Onerock> whoops
13:43:17 <Onerock> I meant traits
13:43:38 <Onerock> because there's a seperate traits and misc bonuses section
13:43:53 <Onerock> so I wasn't sure whether to put it in racial bonuses or traits
13:43:55 <Onerock> sorry about that
13:43:57 <Avatar> mmm traits should be on the template
13:44:03 <Avatar> do a copy/paste of the feats section
13:44:05 <Avatar> call it traits
13:44:11 <Onerock> no I did
13:44:20 <Onerock> but do you put all of the racial traits in there?
13:44:25 <Onerock> or do some go into racial bonuses?
13:44:39 <Avatar> racial bonuses go into misc bonuses
13:44:47 <Avatar> they're different to 'traits'
13:45:05 <Avatar> technically you can do it however you want to do it
13:45:11 <Avatar> the template is just meant to help you get started
13:45:25 <Onerock> okay
13:45:35 <Onerock> I'll just do whatever and I guess I can fix it later
13:45:39 <Avatar> just try not to deviate too much so that it's too hard for the DM to be able to look at your sheet and not know what's going on
13:46:37 <Onerock> yeah I won't
13:57:30 Onerock has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
14:15:23 <Avatar> what's he doing using chatzilla
14:20:46 <Ballig> he probably uses firefox and just chose that as the easiest way to connect to IRC
14:20:48 <Ballig> seeing as he's never used IRC before
14:25:40 <Avatar> the site says connect to IRC like this
14:25:44 <Avatar> but in a complex roundabout way
14:29:15 <Ballig> it also gives quick and easy options
14:29:19 <Ballig> or else we'd never get anyone
14:29:39 <Ballig> except people who already know about and use irc
14:30:47 <Avatar> in a complex roundabout way
14:32:30 <Ballig> it's not complex or roundabout
14:32:42 <Ballig> I have far more experience getting people into the channel than you do
14:51:41 <Avatar> that would be because you control the site
14:52:52 <Ballig> that's like someone who has a job saying "I have more experience at this job than you do." and you saying "That's because you have that job."
14:52:54 <Ballig> it's circular logic
14:53:09 <Ballig> it still doesn't give you carte blanche to be telling me how to do it
14:53:16 <Ballig> unless you have serious suggestions for improvement
14:53:30 <Avatar> I do have serious suggestion for improvement
14:53:35 <Ballig> you've never given me a single one
14:53:43 <Ballig> all you've ever done it say "it's so bad1 it's so complex! the design sucks!"
14:53:47 <Avatar> wasn't entirely finished
14:53:48 <Ballig> and then never offer solutions
14:53:52 <Avatar> but the wording of that bit was
14:54:08 <Ballig> if you can't offer a solution, don't bother criticising
14:54:10 <Avatar> dccallow me
14:54:37 <Ballig> you're allowed
14:54:52 <Avatar> these aren't complete
14:55:27 <Ballig> only one sent
14:55:54 <Ballig> you need to keep in mind that site content is what determines google rank
14:56:11 <Ballig> you can't cut the opening paragraph down to three lines
14:56:16 <Ballig> and still expect to pick people up google searching
15:02:00 <Avatar> add whatever else you like underneath the IRC links but above the campaigns link in the main section
15:02:30 <Avatar> maybe put it in a different style that stands out less
15:03:16 <Avatar> or better, put it somewhere where it doesn't matter if people read it so much, but enough so they can get a quick 'about' of the whole thing
15:03:28 <Avatar> which you'd want to keep to one paragraph
15:03:51 <Ballig> one thing I hate about websites is when they don't describe what they actually are
15:03:58 <Ballig> people are not going to bother coming in here to find that out
15:04:38 <Avatar> yeah okay, so put a blurb that is separate to 'how to get started'
15:05:02 <Avatar> I'll do a separate concept for that if you like
15:24:04 <Ballig> it doesn't surprise me that you think the colour scheme should be "gray and black"
15:24:12 <Ballig> you have this thing where you seem to think all colours are out to get you personally
15:28:24 <Avatar> they are
15:29:37 <Avatar> I had quite a lot of trouble with that grey/black one actually
15:35:09 <Ballig> why?
15:35:19 <Ballig> also, what's your justification for a vertical sidebar instead of horizontal?
15:40:09 <Avatar> because I had to choose between never sets of dark grey for different things that didn't look good together
15:40:22 <Avatar> the vertical sidebar looks more accessible than the horizontal one
15:40:28 <Ballig> why?
15:40:36 <Avatar> well look at it, what do you think
15:41:22 <Ballig> obviously I've previously chosen horizontal over vertical
15:41:24 <Ballig> I want to know your reasons
15:41:40 <Avatar> the reason should become apparent when you look between the two
15:42:12 <Ballig> you aren't getting me
15:42:23 <Ballig> I've already chosen horizontal over vertical before
15:42:28 <Ballig> you need to tell me why /you/ chose vertical
15:42:34 <Ballig> or else you will have no impact on my decision
15:42:45 <Avatar> it loosk more organised and more accessible
15:42:56 <Avatar> especially when they are grouped the way they are there
15:43:03 <Ballig> the grouping actually looks awkward
15:43:08 <Ballig> like there's something wrong with the design
15:43:53 <Avatar> you could give them headings to get around that
15:44:00 <Avatar> but I don't think that's necessary
15:44:01 <Ballig> that would look weird
15:45:49 <Ballig> I think you need to find me an example of a professional page that groups vertical links like that
15:45:53 <Ballig> so I can see how it works
15:47:19 <Avatar> wikipedia does it with headings
15:47:40 <Ballig> I never use the wikipedia sidebar
15:47:41 <Ballig> ever
15:48:29 <Avatar> google+ does it with headings as well
15:48:37 <Ballig> I have no interest in google+
15:50:06 <Avatar> uo.stratics.com does it in certain sections of the sidebars
15:50:49 <Avatar> the spacing isn't a huge issue
15:50:54 <Avatar> it's more about the order of the links I guess
15:51:10 <Ballig> the uo stratics website is very, very dated
15:51:22 <Ballig> it's barely evolved in the last 15 years
15:51:35 <Avatar> it doesn't need to
15:51:45 <Ballig> I don't want the website to look like it's dated
15:52:17 <Avatar> pretty sure this design doesn't make it look dated
15:52:28 <Ballig> the uo stratics design is dated
15:52:30 <Ballig> is what I'm saying to you
15:52:41 <Ballig> it also has a lot more links to categorise
15:53:10 <Avatar> okay just ditch the spacing then
15:53:12 <Avatar> it's not a huge issue
15:53:31 <Avatar> I mean if it looks weird to you it'll probably look weird to someone else
15:53:42 <Ballig> vertical sidebars look weird to me
15:54:04 <Avatar> there's vertical sidebars everywhere
15:54:15 <Ballig> not in width-sensitive websites
15:54:43 <Ballig> (the website is width-sensitive because of the character sheets)
15:55:22 <Avatar> is that what was going to break the mobile version of the website
15:55:57 <Ballig> probably
15:56:22 <Ballig> I should be working out the kinks in this line system on devca
15:56:24 <Ballig> but I keep putting it off
15:57:15 <Avatar> I should be working on a resume
15:58:16 <Ballig> there are two jobs going in the US
15:58:24 <Ballig> do you have demonstrated experience and knowledge in underwater weapons systems
16:04:01 <Avatar> yeah
16:04:03 <Avatar> I play a lot of tf2
16:04:09 <Avatar> 4 years experience
16:04:43 <Ballig> there's water in tf2?
16:04:48 <Avatar> yeah
16:04:53 <Ballig> is there really
16:04:53 <Avatar> killing people underwater is very satisfying
16:05:08 <Avatar> yeah
16:05:08 <Ballig> okay, you should apply for it then
16:05:08 <Ballig> it pays 80-100k
16:05:10 <Avatar> yeah it sounds sweet
16:05:16 <Ballig> but it's in rhode island
16:05:34 <Avatar> what's wrong with rhode island
16:05:56 <Ballig> it's a bit small and out of the way
16:06:00 <Ballig> although full of rich people
16:39:00 <Ballig> Avatar: there's an episode of Community where they campaign for some kind of community college president that reminds me a lot of our campaign for Jhelom
17:37:53 <Ballig> lines are 98% implemented I think
17:37:57 <Ballig> unless I remember something else
17:44:02 <Ballig> think it's done
17:44:06 <Ballig> Avatar: do you want to test it out
17:44:16 <Ballig> you're idle, PM me if the answer is yes
20:38:03 <Avatar> that's awesome man
20:38:18 <Avatar> default should be snap to grid
20:39:09 <Ballig> there are two different buttons for it
20:39:26 <Avatar> yeah I just realised how it works
20:39:35 <Ballig> feel free to suggest a better way
20:39:37 <Avatar> I didn't know what sn did at first
20:39:40 <Ballig> maybe one button and have to right click to make it snap
20:39:44 <Avatar> can both buttons be down at the same time
20:39:46 <Ballig> or make it not snap
20:39:50 <Ballig> no
20:39:55 <Avatar> right-click would probably be better
20:40:28 <Avatar> hm I just deleted a line but I don't know how I did it
20:40:36 <Ballig> there's an issue with it not sending the network commands for lines when loading a map with lines
20:40:43 <Ballig> you right click and move the mouse over it
20:40:53 <Ballig> while a line button is selected
20:41:41 <Avatar> yeah this is impressive
20:42:03 <Ballig> I think it works in a way that's worthwhile using
20:42:15 <Avatar> compare this to the original lines we had
20:42:54 <Avatar> do lines not like drawing over each other
20:43:07 <Avatar> I have two lines right, one going down
20:43:09 <Ballig> if there's already a line through the middle of a box you can't start a new one from that box
20:43:18 <Avatar> ah
20:43:18 <Ballig> but you can start it from an adjacent box
20:43:22 <Ballig> not sure if that's worth fixing
20:43:35 <Avatar> later on maybe
20:43:38 <Ballig> it probably is, I don't think it's impossible
20:53:59 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
20:53:59 <Brunius> Yo yo yo
20:53:59 <Ballig> sup brundog
20:58:07 Brunius has quit (Quit: )
21:07:06 <Avatar> uh, shit
21:07:10 <Avatar> I overwrote the real ca.exe file
21:08:20 <Ballig> that's okay, you can always download it again
21:28:01 <Ballig> is it a problem if it doesn't remember you turning off snap to grid after you click a button other than line
21:28:18 <Ballig> like you click on the line button, you right click it and turn snap to grid off, you draw some freehand lines
21:28:27 <Ballig> then click on a triangle button, then back on the line button and it's on snap to grid again
21:36:06 <Avatar> add an undo button
21:36:06 <Avatar> to ctrl-z
21:36:06 <Ballig> that would be significant, but it's something I've toyed with
21:36:14 <Ballig> is that related to my question about the snap to grid
21:36:19 <Ballig> or is that off topic
21:36:39 <Avatar> doesn't that resolv eit
21:36:43 <Avatar> "oops, undo"
21:37:01 <Ballig> no?
21:37:03 <Ballig> why would it
21:37:12 <Ballig> it's a matter of how the program keeps track of whether you want to snap to grid or not
21:37:19 <Avatar> sorry I will have a better look soon
21:37:24 <Avatar> in the middle of restarting tf2
21:37:31 <Ballig> I'm not particularly interested in making it an overall option that is remembered after you click off the line button
21:37:50 <Ballig> I'm talking about making it use one line button instead of two
21:37:54 <Ballig> and having it snap by default
22:02:56 <Ballig> should dragging a circle onto a line make it go above or below the line
22:33:28 Sachiru ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:43:25 <Avatar> whether dragging a circle onto a line makes it go above or below the line is moot
22:43:41 <Avatar> if you somehow manage to click the line, it's no mean feat to just move it
22:44:53 <Avatar> I never see snap to grid ever being turned off
22:45:05 <Ballig> yeah me either
22:45:09 <Avatar> you could remove the option altogether and I don't think anyone would ever cry about it
22:45:15 <Ballig> I know someone who would
22:45:34 <Avatar> Mekkis just had it there because he could
22:45:42 <Avatar> I don't think he saw a practical purpose for it
22:45:46 <Ballig> that was how it originally worked
22:45:49 <Ballig> he only added snap because you asked for it
22:46:00 <Avatar> yeah but isn't snap like an extra feature for it
22:46:09 <Avatar> you need lines to be drawn at all before you can implement snapping
22:46:18 <Ballig> it wasn't going to be at first
22:46:20 <Ballig> until you asked
23:19:08 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
23:25:33 <Avatar> the trade channel has become a bit of a joke for ingots
23:26:49 Sachiru ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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