// #marryatvillehs — 2006-07-08
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00:28:16 Join: aSH^ ([email protected]) to #marryatvillehs
00:45:00 <Taliesin> hey
01:07:55 <Dylan2> hey
01:08:24 <Carson> eya
01:08:30 <Carson> guessing you went home too dylan?
01:08:38 <Dylan2> yep
01:08:51 <Carson> lol @ ash not getting the whole 'skimming' thing
01:09:25 <Dylan2> that argument was so pointless though
01:09:37 <Carson> yup
01:15:06 Join: akimbo_joe ([email protected]) to #marryatvillehs
01:15:32 <Taliesin> hey
01:17:07 <akimbo_joe> hey
01:17:15 <akimbo_joe> 'sup?
01:17:45 <aSH^> carson, i do get your concept, but im saying that it's not possible to transfer fractions of a cent if your banking system only allows transfers in whole cents, and balances in whole cents
01:18:17 <aSH^> therefore to take the money you'd have to take an entire cent
01:18:39 <Carson> and over >1 transactions, there could be a whole cent
01:18:43 <Carson> but i don't really care :)
01:19:05 <aSH^> and also that if a system does support transfer of fractions and balances in floating points, then that system is flawed and prone to loss
01:19:21 <Carson> hence why banks wouldn't do that
01:19:25 <Carson> they wouldn't want to lose that money
01:20:08 <Dylan2> i cant seem to find any pages on it on the net yet
01:20:17 <aSH^> me neither
01:20:19 <aSH^> it's hard to know what to search for
01:21:37 <Taliesin> you finished work early anthony\
01:24:42 <Dylan2> There is a story that a smart programmer, for some bank, got rich by truncating instead of rounding. Supposedly, he made his accounting program deposit all of the fractions of pennies (when figuring interest) into his own account. And he got rich. Is this urban legend (i.e. false) or the truth? Apparently, the story is true. But, he should have gotten caught right away. The books balance, but in an odd way that violates accounting practices. Few o
01:24:42 <Dylan2> What if I write this short program, in BASIC:
01:24:42 <Dylan2> 10 IF 1/3+1/3+1/3=1 THEN PRINT "EUREKA!"
01:24:42 <Dylan2> Will this program print "EUREKA!"? Probably not, because in a computer there is no exact representation for 1/3. We have three numbers which don't quite equal 1/3. There sum does not quite equal 1. This is called rounding error, or truncation error (depending on how BASIC deals with fractions like 1/3). This kind of error has many devious effects
01:25:27 <Dylan2> http://www.jimloy.com/arith/rounding.htm
01:25:46 <Dylan2> that probably isnt as relevant as my huge pasting implies...
01:27:46 <aSH^> any bank that stores balances in floats is asking for trouble
01:28:02 <aSH^> what i'm trying to find out is do they actually do that
01:28:18 <aSH^> if you kept balances in cents, represented as an integer, then at the end of the day the books will be balanced
01:28:20 <Dylan2> its not an easy thing to find out
01:28:46 <aSH^> if balances/transfers are in floats, at the end of the day there will always be errors due to precision
01:28:57 <Taliesin> i dont think that sort of information is going to be public domain
01:29:54 <Dylan2> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/introcs/91float/
01:30:28 <Dylan2> The error of not storing the fractions of a penny accumulate and can eventually become significant, and even fraudulent.
01:32:01 <aSH^> the facts of floating points and integers aren't debateable.. me and andrews whole argument was about how banks actually implement their systems... well at least that was my interpretation of it
01:32:23 <Dylan2> i know that
01:33:20 <Dylan2> these pages just seem to talk as if banks dont use a rounding system internally
01:34:58 <Carson> they might not anymore...
01:35:25 <Carson> they might store a floating point as the actual balance, and only display the cent value to the client
01:36:02 <Carson> and then time interest is calculated there isn't actually any rounding
01:36:19 <Dylan2> Does anyone kow why my DCC check would take really long?
01:36:33 <aSH^> dcc check?
01:37:06 <Dylan2> its been happening for a few weeks, really long queeries 6 seconds or so and then followed by normal speed page download
01:37:20 Quit: akimbo_joe ([email protected]) Ping timeout for akimbo_joe
01:37:41 <Dylan2> i think DCC is the term, the "requesting page" waiting time
01:37:58 <damian> r u durnloaden
01:38:30 <Dylan2> nope
01:38:49 <damian> no bandwidth usage at all?
01:38:58 <damian> as in, noticable
01:39:26 <Dylan2> only web browsing
01:39:37 <damian> confirmed with DU Meter or somehting? :P
01:40:26 <damian> suggesting, because of virus/trojan might be sucking up your bandwdith
01:40:29 <damian> anywho, bbl
01:40:31 <Dylan2> yeah its got nothing, 8k ish
01:48:02 <Carson> if andy got 8k, it'd be a miracle.
01:49:37 <aSH^> lol
01:52:35 Quit: Taliesin ([email protected]) Ping timeout for Taliesin
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01:58:06 <aSH^> i wish there was some soccer on
02:00:03 <aSH^> http://www.offbeatenough.com/unbeliveable-skills/
02:00:04 <aSH^> seen that?
02:04:35 <aSH^> that 4th goal absolutely rockets
02:04:41 <aSH^> it looks like it was shot out of a canon or something
02:09:03 <Dylan2> yeah
02:09:15 <Dylan2> some amazing kicks
02:09:38 <Dylan2> theres so many compilations like that going round with the world cup on
02:14:50 <aSH^> i could watch them all day
02:14:56 <aSH^> link me up if you've got any good ones
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10:56:17 Quit: Simulacrum ([email protected]) Killed (NickOP (Kill requested by D`Deridex))
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10:56:27 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o Simulacrum
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13:49:44 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o JarZ
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16:05:59 <JarZ> hihi
16:42:43 <aSH^> hi
16:42:59 <JarZ> sup?
16:54:23 <Dylan2> hey
17:07:26 <JarZ> k heading off to look at a car, then i'll be at mum's place
17:07:32 <JarZ> so head up any time, really. probably after 5:30 or so
17:07:47 <JarZ> kbye
18:01:09 <Taliesin> hey
18:01:52 <Carson> lo
18:02:21 <Taliesin> sgoin on
18:02:57 <Carson> just watching some farscape.
18:08:41 <Carson> you coming out for the pub crawl tonight?
18:10:07 <Taliesin> whats happening?
18:10:21 <Carson> pub crawl.... starts at the elephant at 8
18:10:33 <Taliesin> yeah which pubs?
18:11:08 <Taliesin> ill most likely be coming along anyway
18:13:58 <Carson> thats the only place i know so far
18:24:23 <aSH^> half of the guys at my work are getting to go to the US for some meeting/conference :(
18:24:33 <aSH^> and another one is going to sg
18:24:43 <aSH^> sif they don't send me over there, after the solid 2 weeks of work i've put in for them
18:25:04 <Carson> agreed!
18:25:19 <Carson> i'll be sent to sydney at somestage for a week or so... but not exactly great
18:25:29 <aSH^> thats alright
18:25:56 <aSH^> one of the guys who's going to the states is taking his annual leave while he's over there, so work pays for the flight and he gets a holiday.. pretty awesoem way to do it
18:26:10 <Carson> yeah, no shit
18:26:47 Quit: Taliesin ([email protected]) Ping timeout for Taliesin
18:29:12 <Dylan2> i would love a job that sends me overseas
18:30:44 <aSH^> yeah
18:31:01 <aSH^> i would like to work for ASIS, but i don't think i would get a job there
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19:40:18 <Dylan2> carson: andrew wants to know if your heading strait into the city?
19:44:53 <Carson> yeah, i will be
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